Saturday, April 19, 2014
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A gray wolf from a southwestern Montana pack has traveled to the Colorado high country on an incredible journey that carried her across 1,000 miles and five states into a place where native wolves had been wiped out some eighty years before. A global positioning satellite collar attached to the 18-month-old female’s neck pinpointed her in Eagle County, on Colorado’s Western Slope, home to the Vail ski area. Montana wildlife officials received the information last weekend, but the data comes with a two-week time lag, meaning the wolf’s whereabouts since then are unknown. “Two weeks from now, who knows where she’s going to be?” says Carolyn Sime, wolf program coordinator for Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks.

1,000-Mile Journey Carries Montana Wolf to Colorado

A gray wolf from a southwestern Montana pack has traveled to the Colorado high country on an incredible journey that carried her across 1,000 miles and five states into a place where native wolves had been wiped out some eighty years before.

A global positioning satellite collar attached to the 18-month-old female’s neck pinpointed her in Eagle County, on Colorado’s Western Slope, home to the Vail ski area. Montana wildlife officials received the information last weekend, but the data comes with a two-week time lag, meaning the wolf’s whereabouts since then are unknown.

“Two weeks from now, who knows where she’s going to be?” says Carolyn Sime, wolf program coordinator for Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks.

Known as 314F, the wolf was a member of the Mill Creek pack, which lives north of Yellowstone National Park between the towns of Gardiner and Livingston. She was collared by state wildlife officials as part of a research program with the University of Montana to improve wolf monitoring techniques. Biologists say she strayed from her pack in late September in search of a mate.

Satellite data from her collar documents a monumental journey across some of the West’s wildest places: through Yellowstone National Park and across western Wyoming, crossing through the Bridger-Teton National Forest southeast of Pinedale. She traveled southwest into southeastern Idaho and northeastern Utah, then east into Colorado without a report of being spotted. The winding journey has brought her 450 miles from home. Researchers are waiting to see if she continues onward, stays put or heads back to her pack.

“Young wolves often cover remarkable distances looking for a mate and a new territory,” says Colorado Division of Wildlife Director Tom Remington. “If this wolf doesn’t find a pack, she’ll likely keep moving.”

The last confirmed wolf in Colorado came from a Yellowstone pack. The young female fitted with a radio collar was killed by a vehicle on Interstate 70 near Idaho Springs in June 2004. In 2007, video footage captured what appeared to be a wolf near Walden, in northern Colorado, but it was not wearing a radio collar. The DOW receives numerous more unconfirmed reports each year of sightings of what people believe are wolves.

“It raises the question of how many of the animals have been in Colorado,” says Michael Robinson, conservation advocate for the Center for Biological Diversity, which favors a Colorado recovery plan to encourage wolves’ return, including a possible reintroduction plan.

“I wouldn’t be surprised to see wolf pups in the state within five years,” Robinson says. “I think that’s possible. A lot of it depends on if wolves are taken off the endangered species list in the Northern Rockies.”

The Bush administration delisted the wolf in its waning days, a move immediately reversed by Obama administration. A 2004 Colorado wolf management plan allows wolves to roam freely in the state unless they come into conflict with people or livestock, but the state has no plans to reintroduce them.

Native wolf populations in Colorado were wiped out by the late 1930s. Before 2004, the last known record of a wolf killed in Colorado was in 1943.

The wolf that wandered into Colorado weighed 68 pounds when she was caught in July. Assuming she’s still healthy, Sime says, she’s probably gained weight, feeding on deer and elk. Adult wolves may weigh up to 80 pounds.

Wolves can travel 20 to 30 miles a day, and dispersing from a pack is common. It helps create new packs. But it’s rare for them to stray more than 60 miles from their home packs, wildlife officials say. Since 1992, about 10 wolves have been documented traveling over 190 miles in search of a mate, including forays into Utah and South Dakota. The actual number may be higher, though, since fewer than 30 percent of Northern Rockies wolves are fitted with collars that allow biologists to track them. None of those far-wandering wolves succeeded in breeding or forming packs.

“There are a lot of hazards out there,” says DOW spokesman Tyler Baskfield. “Those wolves were reintroduced in that area for a reason. That’s because there’s habitat there that they can make a living on, so to speak. You start crossing roads and highways and getting into developed areas and things quickly change.”

The Montana wolf’s GPS unit only offers a broad-brush of her journey. Much more detailed information remains locked in her collar. Like a James Bond gadget, it’s fitted with an electrical charge set to blast the collar off her neck after two years, when wildlife officers can track it down and download the rest of the information.

“Wolves are pretty amazing travelers,” Sime says. “It’s pretty neat to see with some of this new technology what animals do and where they go. I wish they had a better explanation for why.”

Additional information about this wolf will be reported in the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service’s weekly reports. Potential wolf sightings may be reported to the DOW on its Web site.

About David Frey

Comments

  1. BeckyJ says:

    Maybe she’ll find other wolves in Colorado. It’s a shame we’ve lost our native wolves in Idaho since the introduction of the Canadian wolves.

  2. Jay Kanta says:

    BeckyJ, have you ever used proof in any of your “opinions”? As well, do you ever actually read the articles or do you just assume things from merely scanning the title?

    “The last confirmed wolf in Colorado came from a Yellowstone pack. The young female fitted with a radio collar was killed by a vehicle on Interstate 70 near Idaho Springs in June 2004.”

  3. BeckyJ says:

    I don’t know if there are any wolves in Colorado other than the ones that travel in from some areas. There were wolves in Idaho before the Canadian wolves were introduced. Fish and game had one in their Boise office that was shot in Idaho, Frank Church brochures noted that there were wolves in the Frank Church just prior to the Canadian introduction. I’ve seen a few over the years before the introductions as have many pilots, ranchers and hunters I know. The wolf Fish & Game had had a nice plaque over stating tha no wolves had been sighted in the state during a certain time period (sorry, I can’t remember the exact dates) but the wolf they were displaying was shot in that time period. A handful of wolves had been shot in Idaho during that time period and verified as wolves so it wasn’t just people who can’t tell a wolf from a poodle saying they thorught they saw a wolf. We had wolves. They weren’t as large as the Canadian wolves. Since the Canadian wolves have been introduced the wolves we used to see have disappeared. No big suprise. They were much smaller. Is it possible that there might be a resident wolf population in Colorado. It has a lot of rough, remote country. I think it’s possible based on what I know of Idaho. Wouldn’t it be nice if there was a resident population? Do we want to replace all of them with Canadian wolves?

  4. jedediah Redman says:

    looks like poor lobo travelled all that way just to get gunned down by a wolf-hater from Colorado.

  5. Jay Kanta says:

    Missing proof again: Canadian wolves brought to Idaho are still as big as their brethren in Canada.

    Missing proof: wolves in Idaho were resident packs.

    Anecdotal evidence: “They weren’t as large as the Canadian wolves. Since the Canadian wolves have been introduced the wolves we used to see have disappeared.”

    Undated evidence: “Frank Church brochures noted that there were wolves in the Frank Church just prior to the Canadian introduction.”

    Sorry, doesn’t cut it. As well, since there has been absolutely no proof of resident wolves in Colorado for almost 80 years, there is no reason to believe there are any resident packs at this time. They move, and they move a lot.

  6. steve kelly says:

    And where is the “proof” that packs did not exist before Babbitt et al. rushed into a 10j “experimental, non-essential” reintroduction in Yellowstone National Park? “Occupied” is an inconvenient legal concept for wolf killers, because it tends to favor wild wolves over transplants. But where is the budget in that?

    Corridors work. Stop the government’s professional killers, wolves will do just fine.

  7. jedediah Redman says:

    And just eat organic; and take natural remedies for whatever’s ailing you, eh, steve?

  8. Sure... says:

    …it did? Does the DOW of Colorado and FWP in Montana really expect us to believe this fable? A young female wolf making a journey from the Paradise Valley of Montana through Yellowstone, Wyoming (?) all the way to the Vail area. She would have had to cross in and out of the territories of several wolf packs. Entering the domain of another pack is often fatal for a lone wolf. Not always fatal, but when taken into account the number of packs she would have crossed, the odds would not be in her favor. Maybe she ventured out of normal wolf occupied areas? Perhaps, but probably not. A wolf that strays too far out of the designated wolf areas in Montana and Wyoming does not usually live very long. Plus it is very difficult for a lone, young wolf to catch large prey, like deer let alone elk. Without a pack to hunt with sustaining herself would have been almost impossible. Could it be that she had help? The state of Colorado has said it would not re-introduce wolves on its own. But it has laws to protect wolves that ‘freely’ wander into Colorado. Is it possible that the USFG transplanted this wolf to Colorado as a test run? This sure is a journey……one only could happen in a Walt Disney Movie though.

  9. steve kelly says:

    C’mon, an American conspiracy? Not possible, and there’s absolutely no corruption, except in other parts of the world. Wild buffalo have made long journeys into Idaho, been declared lost and killed. An elk made it into Missouri, scared the crap out of the locals and was exterminated. Bears routinely journey long distances in short order back to where they were trapped. Thousands of people run 26-mile marathons. Give wolves some due, they know how to tavel — eating organic when they can afford it, and trusting in nature to get them to the next meal. When it works, it works.

  10. Barry Saetoro says:

    Kill it.

  11. BeckyJ says:

    Jay, The Frank Church brochure that references Idaho’s resident wolf population is titiled A User’s Guide Frank Church River of No Return Wilderness 23.58.400.9-85. It was printed in 1985. I also have information from Idaho Fish & Game dated April 29,2008 which references the early 1980 resident wolf population in Idaho. I’d copy it for you but I don’t think this web page will let me cut and paste the maps and radio collar info. I also have a picture of a sign out towards Yellow Pine that says wolves will be de-listed when their population reaches 100 and 10 breeding pairs. I attended a meeting with Fish & Game Monday and we were told that the conservative estimate of wolved in Idaho now is 825-835 with 88 packs outside the Wilderness areas. They aren’t counting them in the Wilderness areas. They also said that more realistically we have over 2,000 wolves outside of the Wilderness areas in Idaho today.

    Yes, the Canadian wolves are retaining their size. They are breeding with the existing population, they are cleaning the smaller wolves out. Sorry, personal observation. At least I’m on the ground and have seen them in my front yard.

  12. Jay Kanta says:

    I’m glad that you trust the Idaho Fish and Game, BeckyJ. I just think your trust is as misplaced as your assumptions.

  13. Jay Kanta says:

    Perhaps the federal study from the 1980′s might be of a good reference?

    “In the mid-1980’s, researchers estimated that there were less than 15 wolves remaining in central Idaho, and that lead to the classification of the wolves as endangered species.”

    “Yes, the Canadian wolves are retaining their size. They are breeding with the existing population, they are cleaning the smaller wolves out. Sorry, personal observation. At least I’m on the ground and have seen them in my front yard.”

    And you don’t think I and a lot of others have been there, seen it and are working with ranchers and scientists to try to find a place for wolves and everyone else? Or do you think only YOUR observations are valid? You lack something, BeckyJ, it’s called credibility, just like another anti-wolf poster running around here. Your only intent is to see the wolves gone, and you’ll do anything to encourage that end, including make up facts, figures and personal anecdotal evidence.

  14. BeckyJ says:

    I guess we should only trust your information and your thoughts and everything else is not valid becaue it doesn’t fit your point of view. Only your info is valid. Only your point of view has merit. Who said I wanted to get rid of all the wolves. Oh, that’s your assumption, and we all know you are always right and full of facts. Full of something… Well, since someone made you God I guess everyone else might as well leave this conversation and let you pontificate. You were wrong on your assumption about my feelings about wolves. My observations are my observations and obviously have no value to someone like you. You’re the one who lacks all credibility.

  15. A brilliant idea.... says:

    If the wolves are from Canada. That would make them a exotic species. They poison whole lakes and drainages for the trout purist snobs. Using their logic the introduced Canadian wolves will have to be killed too…….

  16. bearbait says:

    For whatever reason, the wolves that run the east side of the Gallatin have not been notable livestock predators. The Absorka side is a different story. I know a guy who has some USFS range and some private graze where this wolf was probably whelped. The den was just over the private line onto the USFS. In one of those realities that are not liked by the preservationist crowd, this combination of public and private graze bordered by two project fires in the last ten years, is a haven both bear species, the wolves, big cats, and none seem to predate on the cattle which are only up there for three months in summer. Access is limited. It is roaded and wild. So, a pioneer animal from a situation where livestock predation has not been an issue, is not a bad deal. There are good wolves and bad wolves, from a livestock growers perspective. The same for bears. The ranchers and stockmen on that side, from Trail Creek to Tom Miner, see a lot of potential stock killing critters every year, and the damage is not ranch killing. The Bangs disease deal might be. Until the powers that be can get a handle on that, bison appear to be a much more lethal threat to livestock than wolves or bears. Just the observations of a rank amateur.

    The female pioneer is leaving scent all the way. If she intersects the path of an interested male, they might start a family somewhere far from Paradise Valley. That was the objective, was it not, of wolf introduction? That she is from a family that has not been a threat to livestock makes that an even better deal. A lot of behavior is learned, and if she is like her close kin, she is not targeting livestock, either. I hope she marries well, for the pups’ sake.

  17. Justin says:

    “By A brilliant idea…., 2-26-09
    If the wolves are from Canada. That would make them a exotic species. They poison whole lakes and drainages for the trout purist snobs. Using their logic the introduced Canadian wolves will have to be killed too…….”

    Ugh. The western Canadian wolves (canus lupis occidentalis) had previously had a range in Yellowstone. Reintroducing a native subspecies is far from exotic.

  18. Toby Bridges says:

    Buffaloed…

    Ah, but there are 200-pounders…seen ‘em with me own two eyes, shot in the Northwest Territories…same subspecies as the wolves turned loose on Northern Rockies deer and elk by the idiots of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.

    Quite hionestly, it doesn’t matter if they are of the same subspecies…all wolves are of the same run it down…brutally kill it…rip it apart…each just a small portion…then go find another one culture. And it really doesn’t matter if they kill their prey before eating it…or if they eat it all. One of the biggest lies about wolves is that they only kill to survive. Hogwash, they kill for the mere pleasure of killing – leaving entire animals to rot. That’s why we have only about a third of the elk in Yellowstone that were there before the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (yep, same idiots) reintroduced wolves into a community where they had been eradicated a hundred years ago – because they didn’t mix well with humans, pets, livestock or other wildlife. And they still don’t. It’s time to eradicate them again, before we lose all of our wildlife to these un-needed killing machines.

    Toby Bridges
    LOBO WATCH
    Missoula, MT

  19. BeckyJ says:

    Buffaloed, Where’s your proof that it was poisoned. Fish & Game said it was shot. We did have a different subspecies of wolves here. They certainly weren’t as big as the wolves we are seeing in the same area today. The wolf that made it to Colorado was very small, weight wise. We have seen the wolf killing sprees here. We’ve also seen cattle partly eaten alive and left for the next one on private property in sight of town. Fish & Game assures me that the wolves will come back to finish up the partially eaten elk and deer we are seeing during the winter. They also say there are well documented killing sprees.

  20. Jay Kanta says:

    Coyotes, bears, big cats all have the same behaviors that you make a vain attempt to describe, but alas, you don’t seem to be asking for approval to wipe them out. I wonder why…..

  21. the real mike says:

    Dearest BeckyJ,

    I wasn’t going to comment on this thread because so much of it is so stupid (get the hint?); but, I’ve had a second cup of coffee and you’ve worn me down.

    Did it ever occur to you that the very fact that this wolf traveled ~1,000 miles south from Montana into Colorado is evidence that wolves in Canada, less than 1,000 miles north, were traveling into and exchanging genetic material with the local populations in Idaho and Montana in pre-European settlement times?

    …and now we get comments from Lobo Watch? Give me a break! Get a job!

  22. BeckyJ says:

    Perhaps because we are able to manage their numbers.

  23. BeckyJ says:

    I’m sure there was some genetic exchange. We have wolves in Mexico too. There’s probably exchange from one area to the next. This is well documented in Europe.

  24. the real mike says:

    Dearest BeckyJ,

    First, you say “It’s a shame we’ve lost our native wolves in Idaho since the introduction of the Canadian wolves.” Then, you say “I’m sure there was some genetic exchange… There’s probably exchange from one area to the next.” If the populations were never substantially isolated and there is clear evidence that there was always, continuously, “some genetic exchange… from one area to the next,” then your native wolves in Idaho, whatever pitiful little non-sustaining group that was reduced to, were never scientifically not Canadian wolves as you call them. Do you see how your own words demonstrate the convoluted nature of your logic?

    Look at it this way, I’m pretty sure, based on statistics, that the men in my family average significantly larger than the men in yours and even more sure that my daughter is statistically larger than the women in your family. That doesn’t mean, regardless of how strongly I might want it to be so, that we are a different species.

    I really don’t know why I’m bothering. You and your kind aren’t going to listen. You say “At least I’m on the ground and have seen them in my front yard.” You might as well have been telling us that you can see Russia from your house.

  25. BeckyJ says:

    Wolves breed with domestic dogs too. Does that make them the same at the subspecies level? One exchange of genes doesn’t change an entire population. There are genetic differences between races and even populations of people as well as animals. Populations closer to the geographic edge of their range generally share more genes. One crossing between subspecies becomes diluted over time if the offspring remain a part of the old breeding population. The first European to share genes in China did not change that population. There have been many such exchanges of genes in that area, but the Chinese population still remains genetically distinct. People all share some gene sequences, but there are sufficient numbers of genes that are different from population to population to make a population distinct. The same is true in other species.

  26. Beneath says:

    I hope that in responding to a misinformed, rambling Toby Bridges that I do not stray from the high road. Fact: The largest wolf ever shot in the New World (that’s North America Toby) weighed 175 lbs. The largest wolf ever shot in the entire world was killed in Ukraine and weighed 189 lbs. Now, I’m sure you think you have seen those two hundred pounders with own two eyes, but excuse me if I check my credence (that means I don’t believe you Toby). Fact: Mark Hebblewhite, wildlife biologist from the University of Montana, speaking to this very subspecies issue said, “In no way does the science indicate that there is any genetically determined physical disparity between subspecies of wolves in North America. Any difference in size would be due to the availability of resources” (paraphrase, Hebblewhite, February 25th 2009). That means Toby, that the reason the wolves are so big in Canada, and the reason their so big in the Yellowstone Region NOW, is because there is so many big, well-fed tasty ungulates to feast on, not because they are genetically predetermined to be larger animals. Fact: Wolves are (and this is Biology 101 Toby, so try to keep pace) keystone predators and essential components of a web of animal/plant relationships that constitute what we snobs would call an ecosystem. Wolves are not always able to eat all of their hard earned meals. Morsels left behind are never left wasting in the sun, but are always consumed by a host of other species including but not limited to wolverines, bears, coyotes, foxes, eagles, and whatever else is fortunate to chance upon a free meal. Fact: Elk and Deer are overpopulated in most regions of the state. I happen to be from Southwest Montana, and had no difficulty harvesting my Elk this year because of an extended hunting season to reduce overall numbers of the herds. Deer are so prolific and at times problematic to even the most casual observer that I won’t bother to cite further science, or personal experience, or, gasp, facts in relation to this issue. Fact: Wolves have had behavioral effects on ungulates much more than numerical effects. The idea that wolves are consuming the kind of game to actually substantively reduce ungulate populations is well, frankly absurd. By Sure, this is far from the longest documented journey of a lone wolf. Pluie, a grey wolf fitted with a collar in Canada traveled an area of 40,000 square miles in less than two years (www.y2y.net). Is the reason that folk such as yourselves post this nonsense because in no other forum would such inaccurate rubbish even be permisable. I was born in this state, Toby, and I’ll continue to live here and help usher in a New West free from ignorance like yours and full of wolves. You’ve been served.

  27. Justin says:

    BeckyJ said, “Wolves breed with domestic dogs too. Does that make them the same at the subspecies level?”
    Rarely is there crossbreeding in the wild of dogs and wolves. The few instances of all black wolves documented were wolf-dog hybrids (often found in indian settlements and semi-domesticated by them). Just to keep things straight, dogs are Canis Lupus Familiaris. Wolves belong to multiple subspecies (the ones we are dealing with are Canus Lupus Occidentalis).

    “One exchange of genes doesn’t change an entire population. There are genetic differences between races and even populations of people as well as animals.”
    That’s true, exchanges of genes are actually necessary to prevent genetic bottlenecks and imbreeding. However, bring humans into the equation makes your argument less valid. What races are we talking about? European defined races? Brazilian defined races (of which over 40 are acknowledged)? By what criteria do we define race? You are confusing cultural definitions with scientific definitions. What sets of genetic peculiarities define Caucasian from, say, blacks of subSaharan Africa. Skin color? Sure. Lactose tolerance: No. Lactose tolerance is more prevalent in W. European Caucasians than W. European Caucasians. Prevalence of Sickle Cell Anemia: No, those in southern Africa do not have it unlike Central Africa.
    I’m getting off topic but I do have to address the fallacy in your logic. There are no subspecies of humans. There is no way to genetically divide us because the variability of genetic combination crosses skin color boundaries.

    ” Populations closer to the geographic edge of their range generally share more genes.”
    ….I’ve never heard this. Can you substantiate this with an article from a peer-review journal?

    “One crossing between subspecies becomes diluted over time if the offspring remain a part of the old breeding population. The first European to share genes in China did not change that population. There have been many such exchanges of genes in that area, but the Chinese population still remains genetically distinct. People all share some gene sequences, but there are sufficient numbers of genes that are different from population to population to make a population distinct. The same is true in other species.”
    Again, you’re completely full of. The Chinese do not have a genetic distinctness. It’s due to your perspective. If you were from China, you would probably be making the argument that the Han were distinct from the Zhuang or Machu.

    Does anybody else find it completely ridiculous that BeckyJ’s race-driven worldview influences how she interprets the natural world?

  28. Toby Bridges says:

    Real Mike…

    If that were true, our beloved and stupid U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service wouldn’t have had to “renintroduce” wolves to the Northern Rockies…they would already be there…and we would have saved hundreds of millions of wasted dollars.

    Toby Bridges
    Misosula

  29. Toby Bridges says:

    Beneath…

    You haven’t been around many wolves have you? You seem to be a text book biologist.

    If you think there aren’t any 200 pound wolves, you haven’t spent much time in the wilds of the Northwest Territories or Alaska. So much of your text book crap is just that – crap…like the b.s. that wolves kill only for survival…to eat. They are killing machines that kill for the mere pleasure of killing.

    Now, if you graduated with a degee in wildlife biology…you must be the dumbest person to ever do so. But, that makes you perfectly qualified to go to work for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.

    For the record, my degree is in wildlife biology as well.

    Toby Bridges

  30. Justin says:

    By Toby Bridges wrote:
    “If that were true, our beloved and stupid U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service wouldn’t have had to “renintroduce” wolves to the Northern Rockies…they would already be there…and we would have saved hundreds of millions of wasted dollars.”
    The USFWS admits that natural reintroduction was already occuring. They sped up recovery in the interest of removing the wolves from the ESA.
    Now, whether or not it was worth the money IS a valid argument.

  31. the real mike says:

    Good grief, Toby! You have a degree in wildlife biology and you’ve spent your life, your career, on that childish coonskin-cap adolescent muzzleloading crap that you hustle to pinheaded Walter Mittys? Oh yeah, I know; you’re stuff is more “advanced” than “regular” primitive hunting gear; you’re just a clown! I had more respect for you when I thought you were just some dimwitted dropout trying to make a living off a silly hobby and spouting off about rightwing crap because that’s just what redneck dropouts do and those of us who grew up just have to tolerate it; but, for you to have enough education to know better and to instead occupy yourself hustling kiddie toys and spouting bar talk is just disgusting! For you to have actually wasted your time, the space in the classroom, and no doubt your parents’ money on a degree that you use for what? You should be so ashamed of your sorry worthless silly immature self! Man, this time I really mean it; get a job!

  32. Toby Bridges says:

    Real Mike;

    The industry side of all this is just as important as the so-called scientific side. I did manage a large wildife area for a number of years…and even a large fish hatchery. But I enjoyed the industry side more, much more…heck, I even handled all of the conservation stuff for Bass Pro Shops for a number of years…allocating lots and lots and lots of money for conservation efforts.

    And that’s why the waste of the billlions of similar dollars spent over the past hundred years so wolves can freely decimate what we worked so hard to rebuild sickens me. If you condone that, you don’t need a job…you need a life.

    At least I’m not so cowardly as to hide behind a phoney internet name.

    Toby Bridges
    LOBO WATCH

  33. Toby Bridges says:

    Justin,

    What the self-serving “experts” at the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service were doing is nothing more than handling wildlife issues in a very bureaucratic way to carry on their own agenda, based on bad science. Ed Bangs should be ashamed of himself. America should be ashamed of itself for swallowing all of the wolf b.s. hook…line…and sinker.

    Toby Bridges
    LOBO WATCH

  34. Toby Bridges says:

    Jeff…

    Probably already has been…many of times. I’ve been in a number of hunting camps in the NW Territories, Yukon and Alaska over the years where some mighty big wolves were shot…and not once was there a college educated wolf fact finding expert or biologist in camp to weigh or verify the weight of those wolves. And, most of the time, if there had been it would have been a waste of their time…those wiolves were shot…and skinned…way out yonder in the bush.

    I find it odd, that just because one time there was somebody around to do just that, the so-called wolf experts feel that one wolf was the biggest wolf ever shot. What a bunch of fools. But that already shows in their support of reintroducing an apex predator that’s decimating our other native wildlife. They may be college educated, but they are as dumb as a box of rocks…and not a very big box at that!

    Toby Bridges
    LOBO WATCH

  35. Toby Bridges says:

    Jeff,

    Ahhh…but for every glory hound there are 10,000, 20,000, 30,000 who just hunt for the enjoyment of hunting.

    But now that wolves are in the crosshairs (about time) maybe it will happen…I hope so…and that there are a lot of close contenders taken as well. We need a lot more wolf hunters and a lot fewer wolves.

    Toby Bridges
    LOBO WATCH

  36. the real mike says:

    Let me try to make this simple. Let’s say one of us, any one of us, were to go to a physician and he told us that, besides whatever ailment we came in to see him about, we needed to receive a treatment that he just happened to either manufacture or sell or from which he otherwise received a profit. Most of us would be wary of such a situation and with justification because his behavior could easily border on an unethical conflict of interest.

    With regard to the current discussion of northern wolves and in other discussions of the Mexican wolf reintroduction, we have individuals who strongly advocate the effective extirpation of a native predator as a means of artificially boosting game populations for the purpose of pumping up the market for hunting-related goods and services that these individuals manufacture or sell or from which they otherwise receive a profit. If these individuals are just run-of-the-mill rednecks and represent themselves as nothing more, then, again, we just need to tolerate them. However, when such individuals advertise themselves as having professional training and credentials in wildlife biology, demean the professional performance of other wildlife professionals in the USFWS and other agencies, and also advocate the effective extirpation of a native predator as a means of artificially boosting game populations for the purpose of pumping up the market for hunting-related goods and services that these individuals manufacture or sell or from which they otherwise receive a profit; then I am and will remain strongly concerned, even beyond my irritation with the other aspects of the situation.

  37. Toby Bridges says:

    Jeff…

    Do you carry a weight scale every where you hunt? I don’t, and I have hunted a lot of places. In fact, of all the places I’ve hunted, neither did anyone else.

    If there are 175 pound recorded wolves, rest assured that among the other 95% of wolves killed, there have been more than a few 200 pounders. Don’t be so naive. For God sakes, be realistic.
    Don’t accept all the b.s. about wolves being all their is about wolves.

    Toby Bridges
    LOBO WATCH

  38. Toby Bridges says:

    Real Mike;

    If being realistic makes me redneck, than I’m damned proud to be one. But then, I’d rather be a redneck than an ignorant misguided armchair expert with all the wrong answers…who has never shared time with wolves in the wild. Like I said, you need to get a real life. And you certainly need to learn a real apprecation of the shooting and hunting industry that has donated far, far more to conservation than the likes of you ever has ever given.

    Toby Bridges
    LOBO WATCH

  39. Toby Bridges says:

    Justin,

    And just how far would you pack that 200 pound wolf? Get real, if you shot a wolf that big, you’d skin it out just like 95% of all other hunters – especially if you were 7…8…9…10 miles from camp.

    The fact is, most of those who claim there are no 200 pound wolves have never even seen a wolf in the wild…or hunted where they may have had the opportunity.

    Toby Bridges
    LOBO WATCH

  40. Toby Bridges says:

    Jeff…

    No one said they were common…just that they existed.

    How many wild wolves have you personally actually seen in your lifetime?

    Over a 40-plus year hunting career, I’ve had the opportunity to observe wolves at least a dozen times in Canada and Alaska…and I’ve had a couple of run-ins with them here in Montana and next door in Idaho. Based on the sizes of a few I’ve witnessed shot, which went around 140 to 150 or pounds, I feel extremely confident that I have seen a few that were in the 200-pound class.

    I once helped another hunter in our camp in the NWT skin a wolf that was one of those 150-pounders…and saw the hide stretched to dry…and a few days later another hunter brought in a pelt from a wolf he had shot 6 or 7 miles from camp that was easily 25- to 30-percent bigger.

    In the wild north, I would venture to say that 70- to 80-percent of the wolves shot, by native inuits or sport hunters, are skinned right where they are shot.

    Don’t be so foolish to accept that the “World’s Largest Wolf” just happened to be shot by someone who just happened to have a weight scale along.

    Toby Bridges
    LOBO WATCH

  41. DAVE says:

    OK EVERYBODY GIVE UP ON THE 200 GORILLA WOLF. they probably exist but not yet documented, big deal. this post is not about the sasquatch wolf,,, its about the travels of the colorado wolf. and its about the decimation the wolf causes on our wildlife resources. wolves are killing machines,,, not only for survival but mainly just for the sport of it. they have multiplied and now they need to be controlled to protect our big game species.

  42. Jay Kanta says:

    I find Toby’s claim to have a BS degree slightly unbelievable. After all, most students of science seem to at least have some familiarity with the scientific method, a method that forces truth through proof and documentation, rather than personal anecdotal evidence.

    Then again, it could be just like so many others that are anti-science. They go and get a degree just to try to give their claims against science just a little more credibility. The education system doesn’t have a name for those people, yet, but since they are becoming more common, maybe one needs to be created.

  43. Toby Bridges says:

    No one ever said 200 pound wolves are common…but that they surely exist. Just because some stud college professor boy who carries around a scale…and hopefully a tree to hang it from…has never weighed one that heavy does not mean they do not exist.

    None of you have once eluded to how many wolves you personally have seen in the wild…not the zoo mind you…in the wild. I imagine zoos and in books are the only places you have seen a wolf.

    And, yes they are decimating our wildlife. Good ol’ Yellowstone has only about a third of the elk that were there before idiotic college educated “wolf experts” unleashed wolves on them. If you feel that wolves are needed…and you don’t care how badly they pull down our deer and elk numbers…you are the problem, and most deifinitely not the solution…not even close.

    And yes, we are more common. In fact, very, very few people are in favor of the wolves. The so-called popularity theory spread by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and lame organizations like the Sierra Club and the Defenders of Wildlife is just another of the wolf lies.

    Toby Bridges
    LOBO WATCH

  44. Jay Kanta says:

    Do you know why we don’t talk about the wolves we’ve seen in the wild, Toby? Because it isn’t important. You’re the one with the credibility problem, at this point.

    Your anti-intellectual, anti-science rhetoric is damaging any bit of claim you have to facts. You appear to be making all of it up as needed. Are there fewer elk in Yellowstone, today? Yes. If you believe it is only because of wolves, well, then you are only proving your ignorance of the science and facts surrounding the populations.

    I won’t even go into ungulate studies that say there were far too many elk in the park.

    Toby, might I suggest that in the future you keep your claims to facts and scientific data rather than anecdotal evidence and an attempt to raise yourself above others because you “see things”? You aren’t making a case at that point, you’re just yelling at the internet, a task that you don’t even seem all that qualified for.

  45. Dewey says:

    Reading all these Comments is like watching tennis volleys at an excruciatingly long Wimbledon match .

    FYI —came out in the news today that a ” new” record was set for largest Wolf known in Yelowstone since reintroduction. Generally speaking , the Molly pack in the Pelican Valley has the largest Wolves of the 27 packs in and around the Park. They just weighed one male at 143 pounds with an estimated 5 lbs. of meat in its gullet. That’s the only pack that has enough big-bodied wolves to live almost exclusively on Bison, which require a lot of strength to muscle down for that first helping of red meat. So I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say 150 lbs. would be a pretty phenomenal sized wolf . The researchers are confirming that Greater Yellowstone Wolves who subsist on smaller prey like Deer or even Antelope will downsize themselves for speed and endurance , just like my housecat who goes up and down about 30 percent of his body weight by season. Mountain Man Osborne Russell who kept a diary in the 1830′s noted two sizes of Wolves…big Buffalo Wolf and medium Prairie Wolf that also tuned their bodyw eight adn structure to prey base and physical demands.

    Now, on the subject of wild animals covering large distances , this is nothing new. They have the capability to range over a lot of country and a lot of different reasons to do so. There is the annals of Wyoming Game and Fish an anecdote of a bull Elk tagged in Wyoming being shot in Missouri. I seem tor ecall a story about a far ranging Cougar. A Wolverine was tracked inside a range over 500 miles from north to south in recent years, northern Utah ( Unitah Mtns) to northern Montana and all around. An acquaintance of mine who was a Grizzly researcher trapped a boar on Rattlesnake Mountain just above Cody , and radio collared it. The next day they couldn’t find it anywhere near the site with the spotter plane , so being good Interagency researchers they flew on west to Yellowstone Park , and voila!—there was Dum Dum , 65 air miles from where he had been tagged the day before, over some might rough country called the North Absaorka Mountain Range .

    Do not be astounded by the great distances animals can move , whether migrating or just looking for love. Rather you should be in awe of it. The Arctic Tern migrates from the North Pole country to the South Pole regions and back annually. That’s a mere 11,000 miles or so , one way . That a Wolf could traipse from Yellowstone or the Big Hole down to Aspen-Vail CO isn’t news to the Wolves.

  46. clem from boise says:

    Toby could be right about those 200 lb. Canadian wolves as a little known fact acknowledged by those pinhead science types is that Canadian wolves consume huge amounts of beer. Its a proven fact that wherever Canadian wolves have been introduced there has been an increase in the taking of beer from garage refrigerators. You can also tell they are Canadian wolves as they are very polite and love to watch outdoor hocky games.

    Following Becky’s thred the native wolves of California, lupis californicatus, prefer chardonay or a nice pinot.

  47. Toby Bridges says:

    In other words Jay…you don’t have any experience in the outdoors. Then, I can see why all you can do is quote others…and books. If I didn’t have any first hand experience with somethng…I’d just shut…rather than rely on bad science.

    You must be a student of the Ed Bangs School of Wolvery.

    Toby

  48. BeckyJ says:

    And your scientific, peer reviewed proof of this is what? We have the ignorant professing to be the experts, putting down anyone elses observation or even their references as lacking credibility. Only their opinions have any worth in their own minds. I haven’t seen any documentation to support your ideas. You draw faulty conclusions from anything anyone else offers. You assumes that everyone else want to eliminate all wolves from the landscape. Where is your proof of this? The reason we can’t reach a place to begin working from is because those who think all wolves should be protected at all costs won’t budge from that opinion or listen to anything that might support any other alternative. Their narrow minds are made up and won’t be changed. They are the wolves worst enemies.

  49. Jay Kanta says:

    Toby, I didn’t mention my extensive outdoors experience, because it isn’t important to this conversation. I have seen wolves, however, in both YNP and in the lower Panhandle region.

    But I prefer my data and facts to have something behind them that I can actually show other people.

    Have I ever seen light stopped inside of a gaseous supercooled medium? No, but when I read through the peer reviewed documentation I can see how the experiment might be duplicated and how to falsify the findings.

    I also don’t have to go to Loch Ness to say that Nelly is made up, nor do I have to go to a trailer park to say that little green men and their UFO’s are fake.

    But if you’d like to prove that there isn’t a teapot orbiting Mars, please, post it all right here, I’d love to see it.

    If you approve of the unscientific “control” methods that each of the three states have approved and the lack of scientific input into those doesn’t bother you, then yes, you’re all for the extermination of the Northern Rockies wolves. Scientists, those darn egg head book learned geeks, have extensive experience and knowledge that you don’t, and you never will. If you think it is so easy to get peer-reviewed publications, do it. Publish your “200 pounder” in a scientific journal.

    If you post lies and misinformation, however, how can you expect to have the least bit of credibility? And why shouldn’t that credibility be questioned when you are trying to come across as some sort of expert?

    The sad truth is this: people like Toby and BeckyJ think that their own personal evidence constitutes some sort of expertise that is greater than anything that can be learned from peer reviewed publications or official scientific reports.

    In the short of it, the fight over wolves is nothing more than the fight over Creationism/Evolution or Global Warming, there are those using evidence and fact, and those using emotion and personal anecdotal experiences. In the end, science will win, you’ll lose, and you’ll continue to whine about it. Why should anyone engage them without just constantly pointing out that their logic is childish and their lies are transparent?

  50. Jay Kanta says:

    Oh, and BeckyJ, no one here has said that wolves should be protected at all costs. My personal opinion is based on the scientific journals and findings, that the wolves do need to be controlled, but they need to be controlled carefully. None of the state plans allow for the kinds of scientific review that biologists are requesting. Wyoming has pretty much said that they don’t care what anyone else says.

  51. BeckyJ says:

    Thank you so much for clarifying. All Fish & Game, USF&W;, etc biologists are idiots. Only your personal observations have any merit what so ever. You’re delusional. That explains it all.

  52. Beneath says:

    Uh, Toby, I just saw some of those nasty, homicidal wolves, a couple weeks ago, and yes, they were in the wild. Mighty big too, like 250 easy, with sharp fangs and claws. Kanta is correct, it’s completely irrelevent whether we’ve seen wolves in the wild. We get it Toby, you’re a hunter, you’re hardcore, hence all the sublimated insecurities surrounding these animals. As someone else mentioned, it’s pointless to cite further data, statistics, science, or trained professionals because your perspective is not based on sound reasoning, just your own misguided sense of righteousness. For the record I don’t have a college degree, it may sound like I do because my posts are characterized by coherence and lucidity not arrogance and hatred as some of yours. As I said before I had no trouble bagging my game, maybe you should try a new hobby, knitting seems appropriate.

  53. Toby Bridges says:

    You know, Jay and Beneath, I’ve come to the conclusion that the two of you really don’t know squat about wolves…except what you two keep telling each other here.

    Maybe you need to venture out…go to some of the websites that really don’t mind stepping across that line to see what wolves really are doing to our wildlife. Deny it all you want…but me thinkst you’ve been brain washed by all the pro-wolf organizations. Heck, maybe you’re on the payroll…or worse yet, you could have been some of the folks who created this mess.

    And Beneath…your statement…”my posts are characterized by coherence and lucidity not arrogance”…is a pretty darn arrogant statement in itself. Do you always go around bragging about yourself that way…you do seem the type.

    And Jay,…Becky and I do seem to go with the obvious when it comes to wolves and wolf predation…something you might want to consider. From your description of yourself you do think very highly of yourself as well. Heck, you just might be the wolf expert of all wolf experts…and least that’s what you keep telling yourself…and, oh yes, Jay too.

    It’s people like Beneath and Jay who are the problem…and who are dangerous when it comes to conservation. They’re the ones who come off as the “know it alls”…and they’ll continue to keep a blind eye toward the devastation wolves are dealing our wildlife…and if many of you follow their way, elk, deer, moose and all other wildlife in the Northern Rockies are doomed.

    Just ignore them, and the two of them can just keep telling each other how great thou are.

    Remember…”Save An elk Herd…Kill A Wolf!”

    Maybe two for good measure.

    Toby Bridges
    LOBO WATCH

  54. Jay Kanta says:

    And I’ll keep telling you, Toby, prove it.

    The elk herds are healthy and numerous. The wolves aren’t “devastating them” as you attempted to misinform before. There also are no 200lb wolves. You lied and you got caught. So now you turn to standard anti-intellectual tactics and attempt to ignore everything.

    Do wolves tear out the bellies of some animals? Yep. Do they do “gruesome” things? Depends on your definition of gruesome. They do what they do, they are wolves, and we are humans. Our morality and sense of right and wrong do not transpose themselves well onto animals. And yet, people like yourself keep trying the same tactics, without any proof, scientific backing or even logic.

    You’re nothing more than entertainment to me, Toby. To see how easy it is to humiliate you, make you lie, make you twist and turn. I love that it was so simple to get your anti-intellectualism to come out, just as it was with BeckyJ.

    What you don’t realize is the echo chamber is those that ignore science, and ignore the real situation in its entirety. Political, natural, scientific and more, they all get wrapped up in this, the goal being to bring about a consensus from those truly interested in one. Instead, you’ll disassociate yourself from the process through your own lies, your own stubbornness, your own impulses. That’s good, because the process doesn’t need people like you.

  55. Toby Bridges says:

    Jeff…

    Says the same thing. You’re getting a little delusional aren’t you sonny?

    Can’t take it when someone stands up to your bullying can you? That’s exactly why I jumped in on this thread. The likes of you…Beneath…and Jay think you can commandeer these comment sections by ganging up on folks…running them off…just so you can kick things around the way ONLY you want them. Me and a few of the other folks who have serious conserns about wolves have been enjoying a little private e-mailing on the side, enjoying a good laugh or two about you buffoons.

    Seems that’s the only way we can share our thoughts about wolves without you three Einsteins trying to take over. The three of you are the real pieces of work…the types of who that have created the wolf problem. And since you seem to thrive on “proving it”…thanks for proving that you and others like you are the problem…fighting the wrong battles for wolves to freely roam a settled West…and fighting those who also have a stake in the impact those wolves are making…which is far from positive.

    You three stand as “proof positive” that wolf reintroductory by those who think they are so much more intelligent than everyone else…was the dumbest thing our Federal government has ever done. They were nothing more than a bunch of educated idiots…had everything figured out, except how to keep wolves from being wolves and killing everything in sight.

    I know you are too cowardly to do so, since you won’t have a grandstand to show off on, but e-mail me at wolfkill@lobowatch.com and we can freely discuss each others integrity.

    Toby Bridges
    LOBO WATCH

  56. Jay Kanta says:

    Because doing so in a public forum is proving to be too difficult for you, Toby? Because we’ve called out your lie for what it was?

    Your attacks on intellectuals spells out your type perfectly, Toby. It says a lot about you and about your tactics. Wolves haven’t decimated wildlife, they don’t get to 200 lb (or even very close) and you probably don’t have a degree.

    What else remains to be said? You’re the lowest common denominator, right where you’ve set yourself.

  57. Jay Kanta says:

    Actually, Toby serves a few very good purposes. One, he shows how the anti-wolf people have no respect for intellectuals. Two, he shows that if you lie during a discussion, the discussion will then be all about your lie, from that point on. Three, he’s a moment’s entertainment.

    Yes, I’ve chased a lot of people from these forums. Marion, Craig Moore, Dave Skinner and probably a few others as well. Why? Because they lied and they were caught. All they needed to do was admit their mistake and maybe even apologize. They were incapable of that amount of maturity, just like Toby.

    Wolves are a renewed part of the northwest, our ecology is flourishing, our elk herds are still healthy and numerous and our mountain lion and coyote populations are dropping to more reasonable levels. Aspens and willows are growing again, our stream beds have shown new signs of the vigor they had years and years ago. Are there a few negatives? Sure, but they are heavily outweighed by the pluses that wolves have brought.

    Toby’s kind will be just like the anti-gay, anti-evolution, anti-global warming people in a decade or so. They’ll be historical footnotes while America and the world moves on without them.

  58. Toby Bridges says:

    So now Jay…you consider yourself an intelllectual.

    That’s a good one.

    Nothing like placing one self on a pedestal…which you seem to do just a bit too frequently. I would more correctly call you an egomaniac…who thinks he know a thing or two about wolves.

    Overly educated people all too often turn out to be the dumbest.

    For the record, no info was removed from my website – just some added to appease cry babies. With all of that education…surely you can read…can’t you boy.

    Toby Bridges
    LOBO WATCH

  59. Toby Bridges says:

    “150…160…even 200 pounds.” just reads better…and should appease those of you who tend to cry. But nothing was removed.

    Like I said before jeff…you need to go get a life.

    Hey, how are the fringe benefits with the USFWS? Do you get to keep all the cash you can cram into your pockets?

    “Sure Toby Sure” looks like an admission of guilt to me.

    What do you think Sure, Barry and Becky?

    Toby Bridges
    LOBO WATCH

  60. Toby Bridges says:

    Jeffie…

    You say you have a hard copy print out…which is a lie if you claim it says “easily top 200 pounds”. It said “can top 200 pounds”. So, get it right.

    Sure, I edited it to read “even 200 pounds”…so you won’t have to run crying to your momma about the big bad wolf hater that’s scaring the living daylight out of you. Sorry if I’ve been scaring you sonny boy, cuddle up with your Teddy bear and the trauma will soon pass.

    If this is all you have to do…to question…to feel a sense of accomplishment…you must be the USFWS government employee who’s been going to my website – who has nothing else to do.

    How much are we payng you anyway? Whatever it is, you’re not earning it.

    Let’s you and I get one thing straight right here, I’m not for the wolves. I do hate ‘em…hate the very thought of them destroying our big game populations here in the West. You do live in the West, don’t you Jeffie…or are you chiming in on all of this from a condo somewhere up around NY city or Washington D.C.. I’ll run a check on the e-mail address and learn what time zone it’s from.

    Now, “Jeffie don’t you cry…momma’s gonna bake you a wolfie pie…”

    Toby Bridges
    LOBO WATCH
    Sportsmen Against Wolves

  61. Jay Kanta says:

    “On the other hand, a mature Canadian gray wolf can easily top 200 pounds.”

    Actual quote.

    Whole paragraph:

    “Typically, the adult native gray wolf of the Northern Rocky Mountain region would have weighed in at about 100 to 120 pounds. On the other hand, a mature Canadian gray wolf can easily top 200 pounds. And it takes basically twice as much “prey” to keep them fed.”

    And further on the same page:

    “And they are decimating other “native” wildlife species – which cost American sportsmen billions over the past hundred years to get to the record numbers we “had” before the reappearance of the wolf.”

    Sounds like an organization that really needs some support. I think they make a new bra for men, don’t they?

  62. Toby Bridges says:

    Since there are far more wolves than wolf researcher, of course not those who reside in NY City, LA, Boston, Chcago, and other noted wolf centers…you guys can definitively say that there are no 200-pound wolves out there?

    Can you?

    If that’s what it said, then maybe it did. I asked my administrator to change it to what it says now. I apologize Jeff for calling you a liar…so stop squeezing the stuffing out of your Teddy bear.

    Toby Bridges
    LOBO WATCH

  63. Dewey says:

    Yes, Jay , et al …I agree. We who support the reintroduction of Wolves in Greater Yellowstone and elsewhere definitely need a few Toby’s around to remind us of our challenges . The Tobys of the West —and there are many— are coming at the Wolf issue solely from a position of hatred, intolerance , and a supra-arrogance bordering zealotry that are the territorial scat marks of the Western Rubythroated Carniphobe. Unfortunately , they have guns, and they vote. Or in Toby’s case, put up virulent websites. I rolled thru a few of LoboWatch’s offerings, and I have to conclude that Emperor Toby I has no clothes…

    Myself, I live in Cody , Wyoming , where anti-Wolf hatred is du rigeur. Only myself and one other fellow, a retired government ecologist have the brass and the facts to speak out publically for Wolves. And we pay a mighty price for it, although we have many sympathizers who would like to speak up but would do so at their peril and under threat of retaliation , like job loss. Cody is an epicenter of Wolf upheavals; the interface between the Yellowstone Park Wolf and the Rest of Wyoming Wolf. The line dividing the protected Wolf from the Shoot On Sight Wolf under Wyoming’s terrible management plan is literally two blocks down the street from me where the highway runs thru town from the Montana border towards Casper. Nowhere in Wyoming is the Wolf fire burn more fierce than Cody , with a possible exception in Sublette -Lincoln County in the Green River-Wyoming Range country. To be Pro-Wolf in Cody is to be a leper or a persecuted heretic. If murder were legal I would be at the head of the list. Death threats are common…I ignore them and nothing ever comes of them ( that alone says something ). I deal with Tobys continually , and am thankful they all do not have their own websites or the willingness to take it to the streets with virtual molotovs in hand as does our self-proclaimed Emperor.

    The Tobys of the West will never be able to have a rational argument on the sound science behind Wolf Reintroduction. They will never allow themselves to see ecology at work right before their eyes. They will not see the balance between predator and prey that has existed for countless thousands of years , let alone realize that an Elk herd without a Wolf pack is an anomaly of nature; that a Wolf without an ungulate is unnatural ; that the Greater Yellowstone and Northern Rockies still have enough habitat and resource base and wildlife to make it right.

    What the Tobys do believe—incorrectly and dangerously —is that Wolves have no place or even positive value on the Wyoming-Montan-Idaho landscape. That Man is seventh down the food chain without his Winchester is anathema to the Tobys. They refuse to realize that sport hunting by Man is also a good ways down the list of tools and methods to best manage wildlife ; that wildlife management is best left to the real Professionals…Canis lupus, Ursos arctos, Canis letrans, Puma concolor, Gulo luscus , Haliaeetus leucocephalus, Aquila chrysaetos, et al, with the unconditional consent of their prey and without undue interference from Hominids or domestic Bovines , et al.

    The Tobys of the West believe —self righteously in his particular case—that the only tool for managing a Wolf is a gun. His website is a bunker . His science arguments ( if any can be upheld ) comes from as one Newwest commentor so succinctly put it , Barroom Biology 101. Unfortunately , when it comes to exclusively using rifles to manage Wolves, the Western Rubythroat is confronting only a small precinct of the situation on the ground. It’s a lot larger and a lot more complicated than losing a few cows or sheep hither and yon across the northern fiefdoms of the American west. But Toby doesn’t want to hear any part of it. Especially the part that it was wrong for his grandfather’s ilk to nearly exterminate the Wolf in the first place.

    Remember. I’m writing from Wyoming, where the Tobys of our backward province hve delayed and derailed the Delisting of the Grey Wolf for years because they insist on being able to shoot all wolves on sight basically outside of Yellowstone and its adjacent wilderness. That describes Toby to a “T”, but our Tobys are actually Legislators and are the ones responsible for the pandemonium and regressive rhetoric in contemporary Wolf management.

    In a very perverse but also delightful manner of thinking, I’m glad we have the Rubythroated Tobys and Microencephalatic Wyoming legislators out there. The more they obstruct and delay Wolf delisting, the longer the Alpha males and Alpha females have to den up and make more Wolf pups.

    The female Wolf that made it from Paradise Valley Montana to Aspen-Vail Coloradoa and beyond ?— the thousand mile odyssey that was keynoted in these very pages only six days ago by David Frey — she’s a pioneer. She’s in Colorado today because Toby and the Wyoming Lgislature hate her. And that is not necessarily entirely a bad thing. I hope she finds a mate and starts a pack in the White River national forest of Colorado. I’ll bet Toby can’t even get a date. Thankfully , his personality is likely 100 percent effective birth control. But what do I know ?

  64. Jay Kanta says:

    Prove to me there isn’t a teapot orbiting Mars, Tony, and I’ll prove to you that a 200 lb wolf doesn’t exist. It isn’t up to us to prove a negative, it is up to you to provide the evidence that such a thing exists, today, in the wild.

    You see, Tony, the biologists that you love to attempt to discredit, that you call names and that you berate? They would love to get their hands on evidence of a 200lb wolf. It would change the situation on the ground, it would provide evidence that they don’t have and they would have to change their predictions. It would be a boon to the scientific industry around wolves to suddenly have to redo a bunch of their stuff, and money is what makes all those biologists and scientists work, right?

  65. Toby Bridges says:

    So, Jeff and Jay…do you work for the USFWS? You guys are great at asking questions…but you don’t answer many.

    If you do, then you must work closely with Ed Bangs…who once stated that is was alright to lie to the public in order to reach the objective.

    Do you “intellectuals” subscribe to that same feeling?

    I thought that the idea was to reintroduce “real wolves”. Ed Bangs kind of took it upon himself to change the genetic purity of the wolves to be reintroduced to include all sorts of crosses, including dog-wolf, coyote-wolf. and even coyote-dog crosses…stating something to the affect “any wolf like” creature. Now, how scientific is that?

    His work back in Minnesota and Wisconsin has resulted in a wild assortment of Heinz 57 mongrels runnng around under the protection of being “wolves”. Bangs has lied to congress, he has lied to those who work with the ESA, he has lied to those he is supposed to work for, he has lied to the wildlife agencies of numerous states, he has lied to the American public.

    So, why would anyone ever begin to believe anything he has to say now?

    He’s one of those “intellectual idiots” I keep refering to.

    It’s the Toby’s of this world that will keep questioning the idiocy of experts such as yourselves (or so you say)…because it is we who will have to go out and clean up the mess you’re creating.

    Now, once more, do you work with the USFWS…or one of the “defendent interveanors” such as Sierra Club, Defenders of Wildlife, HSUS, Earth Justice, etc.????

    I just want to know, so maybe I can look for you in court when the shooting and hunting industry slaps a mulit-billion dollar lawsuit against the USFWS and its partners in this crime – to recover the money spent by sportsmen to rebuild deer and elk herds over the past hundred years…which “your” wolves are now destroying. There’s a few million of us who would like to be there when it happens…and we want to know exactly who our enemies are.

    Toby Bridges
    LOBO WATCH
    Sportsmen Against Wolves

  66. Toby Bridges says:

    Oh, Dewie…

    You assume far too much. I’m just tickled that I can be a thorn in your side.

    The vast majority of Montanans feel just as they do in Cody…that it’s time for the wolf to go. Heck, in this state they’re even willing to go toe-to-toe and head-to-head with the USFWS boys…with pending legislation that just might show them the door.

    I’ll make sure the beautiful woman I share life with gets a chance to read your lengthy ramble. She’s sure to get a kick out of it.

    Oh, one more question Jeff and Jay…where was it you boys said you’re from?

    Toby Bridges
    LOBO WATCH
    Sportsmen Against Wolves

  67. Toby Bridges says:

    Oh, thought y’all might like to know, that in a few days, I have a piece that’s going out to over 400 members of the media and members of the shooting/hunting industry that takes a very critical look at the the Wolf Recovery Program, which will be appropriately titled…”Lies, Lies And More Lies..The True Story of Wolf Reintroduction”.

    Jeff, Jay, Beneath and Dewey…your hero Ed Bangs will be the main target…excuse me, I mean the leading man.

    Tighten up boys, you’re kind has been served. The sportsmen of this country are sick and tired of your b.s.

    Toby Bridges
    LOBO WATCH
    Sportsmen Against Wolves

  68. clem from boise says:

    “It’s the Toby’s of this world”
    Amazing when you start speaking of yourself in the third person. For a while I thought you were just a blowhard with all the name callling, anger and inability to provide any real facts but now prove yourself to be a narcissist too.
    I actually feel sorry for you.

  69. bearbait says:

    This is America. The Fat country. The most monster elk of all time was shot in the last year. 49,000 enlistees in the military who were not career criminals, stupid, or crazy, could not lose enough weight to make it to boot camp or washed out because they were too fat. In WWII, the average draftee was 20lbs under weight, and the military had to feed and exercise them to put on weight. Now we have to take 40 lbs OFF people. The recent feature length cartoon “Wall-e” (sp?) and the earlier cartoon feature “The Triplets of Bellville” show Americans as hugely fat. I watched the whole of the neighborhood elementary school march by my house on their way to the amphitheater at the park, and half the kids waddle instead of walk. So why in the hell would we not expect to see the local wolves stopping by the BarBQ Ranch for a heifer snack and a Supergianthugemega Coke? Big old fat wolves would be so much more anthropogenic and lovable than some skinny wildland thug killing Bambi’s mother. Give the wolves a break. They will get fat in time. And with all the hormones the ranchers put in that beef, why in no time we will have six foot tall wolves weighing 300 lbs.

  70. clem from boise says:

    Bearbait you make an excellent point about fat wolves. I just worry how many will become Type II diabetic?

  71. Jimbo Macowski says:

    I’m a hunter from Montana and I definitely support wolves. This idea that wolves are “destroying” game herds is unfounded if you look at the actual figures from the surrounding states. In fact, research has clearly shown that natural predation actually benefits the health of game herds. Game herd health doesn’t necessarily correlate with high population numbers.

  72. Dewey says:

    Just offhand, I’d say commentor/hunter Jimbo M. of Montana who states Wolves improve game herds is probably not on Toby Bridge’s christmas card mailing list…

  73. horst says:

    Perhaps if we called what is happening a lynching we could get some intelligent thought moving in this direction?

  74. Toby Bridges says:

    Jimbo is just living in the past…Seems Fish, Wildlife and Parks is finally fessing up to game losses…and in some areas they are as bad as in Idaho – herds in some areas there already reduced by nearly 30-percent.

    I guess the several hundred thousand “other” hunters who hit the hills, valleys and mountains of Montana this past fall must have just imagined that they were seeing far less deer and elk than in the past…and the only thing different has been the “Invasion of the Elk Body Snatchers”. Or, maybe those who come here claiming to be “Intellectuals” are really aliens – like Huey, Dewey, Louie and Jeffie. And they’re sucking our game up into their Mother Ships and hauling them off to another universe.

    Hey, where did those USFWS intellectuals go anyway?

    You’re probably right about one thing Jimbo, dead elk mauled by wolves are probably pretty darn healthy.

    Toby Bridges
    LOBO WATCH

  75. Toby Bridges says:

    Clem,

    When you have something constructive to add, please do. We’re waiting to celebrate that moment.

    Wolves are wonderful animals…where they can roam and be wolves. I had one follow me all day once in Alaska, sometimes staying within 75 yards of me…while I sat and glassed for caribou. I even spoke to the devil several times that day. And I was damned proud to share his company. And he stayed with me right up until I pulled the trigger on a decent bull. Then he ran off several hundred yards and watched as I skinned out the animal, caped it and boned out about 75-pounds of meat. I then packed it back out several miles to the boat…and when I returned that wolf was gorging itself on the gut pile. Fortunately, it hadn’t fed on the skinned carcass, maybe due to the fact that I had layed a well worn rain jacket across it. I boned out another 40 or 50 pounds of meat, and left the remaining scraps to the wolf.

    The next morning a friend and I returned to find bones scattered everywhere…and probably less than 5 or 6 pounds of meat left. The loss was a small price to pay for such a unique experience.

    That’s not what we’re dealing with today here in Montana, Idaho and Wyoming. We’re dealing with a killing machine that’s, as often as not, killing for the pure pleasure of killing, and leaving numerous carcasses to rot. The USFWS’s genius Ed Bangs has unleashed a mongrel breed of wolves (accepting anything that is “wolf like” in appearance as a wolf) upon western wildlife, and despite the b.s. of those who have no clue, those “wolf like” menaces are making a serious impact on our big game herds. Maybe you can live the rest of your life playing golf, sailing, watching football, going to craft fairs, and looking at pretty deer and elk empty mountains…but I am not. And neither are the vast majority of other serious sportsmen. If it is war the wolf lovers want, then it is war they will get.

    Those who continue to fight reasonable management of wolf numbers are the problem. And at the top of that list is U.S. Court Judge Don Molloy…who is right now the number one enemy of the sportsmen of this country.

    Toby Bridges
    LOBO WATCH

  76. Jay Kanta says:

    Sounds like a bunch of lies followed by a threat to a US Judge, a federal offense. Good job, nutcase!

  77. hedgehog says:

    Toby Bridges, in one breath you praise humans for killing for pleasure (not for glory), and in another you condemn wolves for killing for pleasure. Do you really expect people to take your comments seriously?

    I’ve read this whole thread and I’ve witnessed your hypocrisy, your ignorance, your anger, and your disrespectful, unwarranted attacks on other people who simply disagree with your views.

    One thing is abundantly clear: You’re a bully. And as we all know, the only thing that ever straightened out a bully is a good, old-fashioned ass-kicking.

    When it comes to making your real name known, I sure hope you’re as brave in public as you are on the internet. I know a lot of folks who’d happily give you that beating.

  78. Dewey says:

    TOBY , when you have something constructive to add , please do . We are waiting to celebrate that moment, too. All you’ve added to this discussion has been Dee-structive. When it wasn’t bilious or dubious. And out patience only carries so far…

    After quite a bit of “dogged” research this week , it appears that the largest and heaviest Wolf of any subspecie ever seen by man in the past 150 years was from the Soviet Union ( eastern Ukraine) shortly after WWII , at 189 pounds , sixty years ago. The heaviest wolf recorded in the New World was killed on 70 Mile River in east-central Alaska on July 12, 1939 and weighed 79 kg (175 lb. ) including gullet contents, which was seventy years ago and considerably lighter than your mythical 200 pounder.

    Thems the facts, but you went for days claiming and flaming about the 200 pounder . To date, we have no reason to believe a word you have said in the absence of a retraction and heartfelt apology for your ” little grey lies” . So by extension , your defiance annulls anything you have to say here or on your bilious and dubious LoboWatch.com website as well.

    Not only was your last post was an insult, it nailed your coffin shut. You are Discredited.
    ——
    And I do personally apologize to the other more thoughtful and fact based NewWest authors and commentors for sullying the website with Toby’s sworl. But dang it, I DO have a dog in this fight as a Wolf supporter in northwest Wyoming who’s trying to use education , reason , science, forensics and natural history to get past the blind hatred towards a place where we can all accomodate the other’s real goals and reach some common ground. There is plenty of landscape and resource in the northern Rockies to allow sustainable Wolf populations without debilitating the livestock industry or impacting sport hunting adversely. We all have to give a little. It must be constructive, not destructive. And inclusive ( at least until you discredit yourself ).

    By the way , where is our 1,000 Mile Lady Wolf today …last known whereabouts Colorado? You recall, the one that started all this discussion. It’s about time for her regular biweekly GPS coordinate dump, isn’t it ?

    ###

  79. Toby Bridges says:

    Dewey,

    I just love to be a thorn in your sides. You wolf lovin’, tree huggin’ fools need a little opposition.

    You like wolves, I hate ‘em. You think they belong here, I think they belong back in Canada…or the kennels where Ed Bangs apparently got some of his mongrels.

    You think they ought to be allowed to run freely and decimate wildlife and destroy domestic cattle and sheep, I think they ought to be shot on sight unelss they’re in one of the National Parks.

    You think your wolves are the cute, cuddly and loving creatures Walt Disney implanted in your head… I think they’re killing machines, and enjoy killing other wildlife and livetock just for the fun of killing…maybe taking a few bites now and then…but just as often leaving all of an elk or deer they just killed to rot. (Got a few photos this morning of a mountain lion that was killed by wolves over near Sun Valley, ID and will have them on my website later today. Looked like a competing predator elimination killing.)

    Dewey, I really don’t give a rat’s behind what you think of me, because I think even less of you and your kind. I too have a dog in this fight, and so do millions of other sportsmen, and that is to hang on to the healthy deer and elk herds that took a hunded years to rebuild. We consider them more, a while lot more, than just fresh meat for “your” wolves.

    And Mr. Intellectual (Jay)…That’s the beauty of this country…I can voice my opinion just as much as you intellectuals…and I consider Don Molloy an idiot for stopping the management of wolves. He is truly the sportsmen’s enemy. For such a scientific kind of guy, you sure jump to conclusions a bit quickly.

    But, I’m glad you’re back. I kind of missed you there for a day or so. USFWS must have pried you away from the keyboard to go out and do something to try earning whatever ungodly salary they’re paying you. Hopefully you had to go out and investigate a wolf killing!

    Toby Bridges
    LOBO WATCH
    Sportsmen Against Wolves

  80. Toby Bridges says:

    Oh yeah, Dewey…

    I still believe there are 200 pounders out there…I’ve seen hides that came from wolves much larger than 140 to 150 pounds. The problem is that Jay and the other wolf boys at USFWS just haven’t been able to grab one by the collar and coax him onto the scale yet.

    Toby

  81. Toby Bridges says:

    And hedgehog;

    I purchase permits, costly non-resident permits, and the wolves don’t.

    The money I spend goes back into conservation…and the meat goes into my family’s yearly food supply. (We don’t pay others to do our killing for us, like many folks who apparently think that the meat they buy at the Wal-Mart Supercenter is grown on plants, and is harvested with that nice celophane packaging already on it.)

    The wolves’ wanton waste during their pleasure kills simply is a wasted wildlife resource.

    Toby

  82. Justin says:

    Boy, I sure do enjoy that the Obama administration is going to put science back behind policy making. If not, I might be irritated or worried about the Toby’s of the country.

    I can’t stand the way you talk about wolves. Wolves are not killing machines. Why can’t you stop thinking about wolves in human and ethic-based terms? It boggles be when people think about basic science in terms of right or wrong.
    Haven’t you ever thought of wolves’ “wastefulness” as something more complex.
    1. There are several basics that you always seem to forget:
    Wolf kills abondaned by wolves support populations of coyotes, bald eagles, foxes, bald eagles, magpies, ravens, carrion beetles as well as important detrivores that return nutrients to soil.
    2. Elk populations in the GYE are unnaturally high and dentimental to population health. This has been noted way back by Aldo Leopold in Arizona following the extirpation of Mexican gray wolves. The elk’s preferred diet has a negative impact on moose and beavers as well as willow and aspen.
    3. It is very common for heavy fur to give the appearance of a larger wolf. I have seen this fact addressed time and time again in the popular media.

  83. Justin says:

    As a side note, Toby have you ever been to or read about Isle Royale? Kind of interesting how wolves and ungulates have maintained healthy populations for half a century.
    Do you really think wolves are going to eat themselves out of house and home? Wouldn’t that lower their carrying capacity and thus population levels before killing all ungulates?

  84. horst says:

    Make a rightwingloon happy. Kill something!

  85. Toby Bridges says:

    Isle Royal…not only have I read about…been there. Few wolves and few ungulates…if you want to call that a happy balance…then so be it.

    Let’s see, that’s a National Park, isn’t it?

    And that’s exactly where the Feds need to keep their wolves…In Rocky Moutnain National Park, in Yellowstone National Park, in Glacier National Park, in Yosemite National Park, in Olympic National Park…and possibly a few others. And when one leaves the boundaries of these land (maybe dropping their National Park status and relabeled as a “Federal Wolf Refuge”) they shoud be shot at anytime by anyone.

    Now, that’s wolf management.

    Toby Bridges
    LOBO WATCH

  86. Justin says:

    Are you serious? You and I both know that leaves extremely small populations at risk to random events like disease or a hard winter. And it leaves almost no genetic variability.
    A basic tenet of population ecology: small population = good as dead in the long run.

    I had a last point and it’s that by making assumptions you only make yourself look like a jerk. I sure as hell ain’t a wolf-lovin’, tree huggin’ fool. Wolves just ought to be treated like any other game animal. And I can tell you, there isn’t anything better than getting out into the woods with a chainsaw.

  87. Toby Bridges says:

    I thought the wolves on Isle Royal were doing so great?

    I push to get the pendulum swung as far as possible to the other side for one reason…and that is because of how sportsmen were outright lied to by the USFWS and Dept. of Interior when all of this wolf reintrodcution crap was shoved down our throats.

    If you recall, the plan was to begin management when the number hit 300…anyway that was the lie they touted. Now, here we are more than 2,000 wolves later (and probably 50,000 to 70,000 elk poorer)…and we’re just now getting to where states are going to be allowed to manage wolf numbers…that is until another idiotic Federal judge like Don Molloy of Missoula swings with the wolf-loving environmentalists and stops it all again.

    I believe in wolves too, with much smaller numbers that are easier to manage. (Hundreds instead of thousands.) But as long as the “other side” kept preventing that management, and allowing so many deer and elk to be thrown to the wolves…they were keeping the pendulum entirely on their side…I have just pushed to swing it the other way.

    In today’s world, you can be “pollitically correct” and nothing is accomplished, or you can be “controversial” and at least get the attention of some folks and get the message across that there’s something wrong…and that not everyone agrees with every issue.
    When it comes to the health of our big game herds, I choose to
    take the controversial path.

    With that said, like the majority of those who hunt (altogether about 25-million), when faced with either FEWER DEER/ELK AND A LOT OF WOLVES…or MORE DEER/ELK AND SIGNIFICANTLY FEWER WOLVES…I’ll take the latter.

    Toby Bridges
    LOBO WATCH

  88. blueandgray2007 says:

    Alfred, I mean Toby Bridges, you just moved to Montana from Missouri a month ago and are talking about something you know nothing about. YOU probably have never even hunted in Montana. Anything you know about wolves is learned from outfitted hunts but not in Montana. I would assume that you havent even sat down with one researcher to ask them questions. Tell us what you know about the overpopulated elk herd and the wolves in the Madison. Tell us what you know about the overpopulated elk herd and the wolves down near Dillon. You are an embarassment to all true Montanans. The more you say the more you show your true ignorance. Not once have you mentioned anything about livestock producers in Montana who have a bigger stake in this than you ever will. WOLVES DO NOT IMPACT YOU OR YOUR LIFE. Stick to what you know – firearms and outfitted hunts – that is what you should talk about.

  89. Toby Bridges says:

    I’ve been making the move to Montana for several years now…so, you are apparently as ignorant about me and who I am as you are wolves.

    If you claim to be a sportsman, you are the embarassment to whatever state you call home.

    For the record, since this is kind of a dead blog now, I’ve muzzleloader hunted in 38 states and 2 Canadian provinces over the past 44 years…and I’ve been on a grand total of 7 outfitted hunts. Hell, I’ve even put in 10 years as an outfitter. Like I said, you don’t know squat about a lot of things, and your comments certainly show that.

    If you are a Montanan, you are certainly the first I’ve heard claim that there’s an over population of elk anywhere this past season. Do you suffer from double-vision?

  90. Toby Bridges says:

    blueandgray 2007

    Just in case you do come back, please stop being such a coward, using a phony internet neame like “blueandgray 2007″. If you want to attack someone, at least be man or woman enough to use your own real name. To make comments under disguise is like shooting someone in the back in the dark.

    I’ve thought about your comments, and quite honestly…I don’t think you are a Montanan…but probably from somewhere like Florida…or maybe even Seattle…

  91. blueandgray2007 says:

    Toby – my name is irrelevant. I am a fourth generation Montanan proud to be raising a fifth. My great grandparents made a living out here off the land just as I do. I am not here to impress you or defend myself. I don’t like bulllies and find it hard to keep my mouth shut on this one. As far as overpopulation of elk talk to your fish and game friends about elk objectives here in our state and where the state is above those objectives – something a sportsman such as yourself should already know all about. As a producer I am not only negatively affected by wolves but elk and deer as well. But I have come to accept wolves – why can’t you? You are the typical non-resident that wants to move out to Montana once you get here you want to change it. I have seen so many like you come here and alter the landscape of this great state into something that you wanted to move away from. You have never hunted in Montana and have never killed an elk or deer here. You have no proverbial dogs in the wolf fight. Yet you are not even an official resident by fish and game standards – something as a sportsman you should already know about, and spread propaganda and lies about something that you don’t like for whatever reason. Why do you presume to know so much about the the dynamics of wolves here in Montana? Where does your information come from? And why go on the internet and stir the pot and create the controversy? I guess the last thing I’ll add before I get back to checking cows is a saying my grandmother had hung in her kitchen above the door – “Don’t interfere with something that ain’t bothering you none”

  92. Toby Bridges says:

    I’m sure it does not say “Blue and Gray” on your birth certicifcate. I’m sure your parents had more forethought and imagination than that.

    Again, it’s hard to believe that someone who is not man enough to identify himself is a true Montanan. Sniping annonymously is a coward’s way.

    So, you are fourth generation rancher. That means that some of your ancestors likely played a role in the elimination of the wolf in this country in the first place. Well, they’d probably be more than a little ashamed of their great, great, great grandson “Little BlueandGray”. I’ve shared your earilier correspondence with several “other” Montana ranchers that are close friends…and quite honestly, they say you’re off your rocker if you think wolves are just fine…and ain’t hurtin’ a darn thing.

    Do you ever get outta your pickup and spend some time in the Montana outdoors? (I’m not talking about riding around and checking cows.) I would bet that in the past 25 years, I have spent as much, if not far more, time in the Montana outdoors and back country as you have. There’s far more to getting out than killing things, especially when one shoots several hundred rolls of film in the outdoors every year.

    And don’t be so sure that I have never hunted in Montana.

    You assume far too much for someone who claims to know so much.

    Wolves need managed, and if you don’t think so, you’re not only a coward who hides behind an internet name…you’re also an idiot…and probably a wolf supporting politician to boot.